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Jesus Is the Hope of the World

Alan Kurschner Debunks Jimmy DeYoung’s Pre-trib Rapture Position

I found this video on You-Tube which agrees with my previous posts on Jimmy DeYoung. I’ve known of Alan Kurschner for a while now because of the folks over at http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/, a web site which discusses the different views on the rapture. (It also has great news updates.)   🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLtdZU2KxOQ

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About Diana Lesperance

I'm passionate about Jesus and I love to defend the gospel of grace and truth. I have a large and active family that keeps me busy and overwhelmed on a daily basis.

Discussion

5 thoughts on “Alan Kurschner Debunks Jimmy DeYoung’s Pre-trib Rapture Position

  1. / Hi Narrow Way. Spied the following goodie on the net. Dare I ask for a reaction or two to it? Lord bless. /

    PRETRIB RAPTURE SCHOLARSHIP !

    How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 2:34,35 reveal that Jesus stays at the Father’s right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His foes at the second coming to earth. Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. (“The Rapture Question,” by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn’t dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above verses! The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby – the so-called “father of dispensationalism” – to list in the scripture index in his “Letters”!)
    Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The “rest” for “all them that believe” is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who’d be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel’s posttrib resurrection!) It’s amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the “great commission” for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
    Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this “rapture” was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” [“gathering”] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google “Walvoord Melts Ice.”
    Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include “Pretrib Rapture Politics,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “X-Raying Margaret,” “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart,” “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).

    Posted by Irv | July 12, 2013, 2:39 pm
    • Irv,

      You make a great point about 1 Thessalonians. If a person believes in the pre-trib rapture they get caught up in all of this gobbledy-gook doctrine. How have serious Bible scholars believed this for so long? And who holds them accountable for the wrong teaching? I think it’s important, especially as we draw closer to the last days, to challenge the wrong doctrine of a secret pre-trib rapture and clarify the biblical teaching on the second coming.

      Who do you think are the most prominent proponents of the “pre-wrath” view?

      Posted by Diana Lesperance | July 14, 2013, 1:58 pm
  2. Sorry for my delay in responding. Been traveling a lot. Some of the leading pre-wrathers would include the late Robert Van Kampen, Alan Kurschner, and Marv Rosenthal. There are lots of post-tribbers also. Lord bless you much, Diana.

    Posted by Irv | September 26, 2013, 11:12 pm
  3. / Hi Diana. Just came by the following on the net. Hope you find it interesting. /

    Stages of Pretrib Rapture History

    If a young woman in Scotland hadn’t dreamed up the “pre-tribulation fly-away” in 1830; if a British clergyman hadn’t hijacked her dream and sneakily planted it around the world in the 1800s; if a crooked, jailed-for-forgery lawyer with no theological background hadn’t come out with a reference Bible in 1909 with the same fly-away escapism in marginal notes; and if modern-day rapture robber barons and tribulational tycoons hadn’t found numerous ways (and gimmicks like four “blood moons”) to widely mass-market the same delicious delusion for the masses while breaking sales records, no one could now be into the moonshine, looking up at the moon and saying “Moon, you mush be drunk becaush I shee four of you!” LOL (If none of this had ever happened, no one would have written anti-pretrib articles that are on Google etc., articles like “Evangelicals Use Occult Deception,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” and “Pretrib Rapture Stealth.” And no one would have written “The Rapture Plot” – the most accurate, most detailed, and most highly endorsed nonfiction history of the 184-year-old pretrib rapture theory, available by calling 800.643.4645; the author of it will give $1000 to anyone proving there is any deliberate dishonesty in it.)

    Posted by Irv Spielberg | February 1, 2014, 7:41 pm
  4. / Hi Diana. Here’s another goodie I ran across lately on the web. Quite a mouthful, right? /

    BREAKING NEWS: The producers of the “Left Behind” movie have announced that the 98th sequel of it is scheduled to come out two weeks before the end of the Great Tribulation – in time to make “imminence” finally believable. (Just kidding. But the next sequel really and truly is set for a mid-2016 appearance!)
    Seriously, if you want the real skinny on “Left Behind” mania, Google “Prof. Wm. L. Craig Leaves Tim LaHaye Behind,” “LaHaye’s Temperament,” “Pretrib Rapture Pride,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” and (for dessert) “Treena Gisborn (Facebook).”

    Posted by Irv | May 10, 2016, 11:34 pm

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Books

Why am I WAITING for “Shalom?”

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven . . ."
(1 Thessalonians 1:9b-10a)

The word "shalom" in the Hebrew has many meanings which indicate restoration, renewal, friendship, peace, safety and so on. At one time, God placed his creation in a perfect garden--a place of safety, security, provision and peace--and we disobeyed God, losing 1) our relationship with God and 2) paradise.

Since that time, we've attempted to bring back both of these losses in our own way. Religion is our attempt to gain back our relationship with God, and politics is our attempt to gain back paradise.

The solution to both of these losses is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet the world refuses to believe the good news! Instead they try to attain the restoration--the shalom--in their own way through their own effort.

I believe that the kingdom of God is restored in the hearts of men as they receive Christ's finished work, but the kingdom of God doesn't come physically to earth until Christ comes.

Any effort to bring about the promise ahead of time in our own strength is akin to Abraham going to Hagar for fulfillment of the promise instead of waiting with Sarah for the birth of the promised child through whom the nations of the earth would be blessed.

The evangelical church is rushing en masse to bring about shalom through their own effort, power, and influence. Men like Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, Jim Wallis, and Donald Miller are losing their faith in the promise of Christ that he would prepare a place for them and they're attempting to restore paradise now.

I want to let it be known that I'm WAITING for shalom. I won't be a part of their dream. They are moving ahead of God rather than waiting on God and they will create another Ishmael as a result.

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